Monday, April 11, 2011
Interfaith Dialogue Paper
This Thursday I will make a mini-presentation on my Interfaith Dialogue Paper in class!!! I am planning to finalize the paper according to your questions and comments.
Have a great week
Thursday, April 7, 2011
We Do Babies
http://media.web.britannica.com/ebsco/pdf/644/34641644.pdf
Review of the Field
Throughout the work I was doing at that time, it was clear that one thing feminist theologians were claiming was the authority of women's experience as a normative source for theological truth. This was (and I think, is) a radical claim! If traditional texts were all written from a patriarchal perspective, then women's voices need to be reclaimed in order to have a full understanding of religious truth. Taking experience seriously is one way to do that. However, as Palczewski notes, sometimes this broader emphasis on women's experience has devolved into a narrower focus on "personal testimony" as "feminine," which in the end is essentializing and unhelpful.
This brings up for me a caution about our reading of these articles, and our discussion this evening. In particular in the Bruner article, I saw a tendency to be less than clear about distinguishing between "patriarchy" and "male" on the one hand, and "feminist" and "female" on the other. To me, it is not automatically essentializing to construe patriarchal argumentation as power-over, attempting to control/change, etc and feminist argumentation as pursuing a different path based on "equality, immanent value, and self-determination." It only becomes essentializing if we assume patriarchy = male/masculine and feminist = female/feminine. Some of the biggest fights I have had with people over feminist issues have been with those who make this conflation! Patriarchy demeans/limits everyone - male and female alike. Ideally, feminist critique of patriarchy aims at a liberation that is for everyone. It is about a system, not sex/gender at the biological level.
That being said, of course Crenshaw's article brings up very interesting biological issues! I think her consideration of the "male norm" is very helpful, although I found myself wondering at a couple of points if she was trying to have it both ways regarding the "difference" issue. This will be worth more discussion in class...
Feminism and arguing differently
Fulkerson makes a great comment, as Cathy highlighted, that feminists state that any kind of persuasion is violent, but their writing is trying to persuade the writers so they break their rules. In addition, this claim turns rhetoric into a complete violence, am I right?
I agree with Fulkerson that taking these arguments from a broader sense will change a lot. I was working on Interfaith dialogue and found out that some of the comments, attempts to come together was rejected because it was thought to be completely Christian, Islamic….. and now these meeting s and discussions are thought to be a great step for the humanity.
Two of the papers we read were mentioning the metaphor we use and their affects on us. I did not read Metaphors we live by yet but it is on the top of my reading list.
Argument and difference
Wednesday, April 6, 2011
Some things I am walking away with
First, the Crenshaw piece is pretty great because it highlights something that I have been arguing since my years as a debater, which is that: Our legal system is inherently patriarchal. Additionally, it supports this claim and expands on this idea in form and function through a case study, and shows how it continues to be patriarchal through current examples in the case study. So, not only do I like that he supports one of the claims that I like to make, but he backs up the claim well.
Additionally, the execution of this case study is also worth a pat on the back. Not only do I appreciate the ways that Crenshaw shows how women, through the equality argument, are pitted against the man (the norm), but I also appreciate the way he reverses lines of argument to show and make clear harms, limitations, and opportunities. This practice of reversing arguments to highlight limits may even be something that can be useful for Lane's proposal of the study of limits in feminist scholarship.
Next, at first I was a bit weary of the Fulkerson article after the first few paragraphs, but I like it for a few reasons. First, he does a nice job of establishing credibility and this example may be used to help others in understanding how this is and can be done. Next, I like his debunking/critique of the feminist critiques: The equity critique and the cognitive/development critique. I think he makes excellent points in both. For the equity critique I concur with one of his major points which is that "most writers who articulate the equity critique simultaneously violate it, but attempting to argue readers into sharing their views" (Fulkerson, 1996). Additionally, I am not convinced either that persuasion is inherently violent. If so, people should stop talking now. Just stop. Because I believe that a lot of communication is rhetorical, and as such- persuasive.
Next, as was mentioned in my previous post- and is discussed in this article, the cognitive/developmental critique has "frequently led to essentializing stereotypes".
Overall, I think that both the substance of these articles and their form and functions are worthy of more attention and bring things to the table for feminist rhetoricians to engage, practice, and further explore.
Crenshaw, C. (1996). The normality of man and the female otherness: (Re)producing patriarchal lines of argument in the law. Argumentation and Advocacy, 32(4). 170.
Fulkerson, R. (1996). Transcending our conception of argument in the light of feminist critiques. Argumentation and Advocacy, 32(4). 199.
ok so it's not just me....lableing practices to be feminine & masculine can reify gender stereotypes
I have always felt uncomfortable with labeling speech, rhetoric, debate, and/or argumentation practices as either feminine and/or masculine. And, I have particularly felt uncomfortable when this type of labeling is done within the proposed framework/lens of "feminist". As Lane (1996) notes, this risks reifying gender stereotypes more than problematizing them .
What I like about this piece, not only that it critiques feminist practices that re-entrench gender stereotypes, is that it offers an alternative. Lane (1996) suggests "limit work" and identifies this as "a theory of subjectivity based upon the assumption that all language systems, and more specifically all identities are simultaneously enabling and constraining". She further states that the "goal of limit work is to analyze systems of constraint in order to determine their productive/constraining ratios" (Lane, 1996).
I believe that this alternative practice of limit work can be a viable approach to studying rhetoric, argumentation, and speech. A major advantage of this approach is that it not only is very critical and highlights of course what is problematic, but it also allows for discussion of positives, what is done well, what enables. The combination, which ideally won't fall too much into the real of binarism, allows for openings and more insight into what one is studying. For me, someone who is interested in political movements, their campaigns, and their advertisements, and is especially concerned with social justice, this approach seems as though it could provide for some useful findings that could potentially add to existing knowledge and possible improvements with social justice campaigns and movements.
Tuesday, April 5, 2011
normality of man and female....
So far I found Carrie Crenshaws’ paper the most interesting. While reading the paper especially the first pages, I was surprised to see there was a legal case against a law totally for the benefit of the women. I put a lot of question marks around the lines and asked a few times “what is wrong with this idea”? I was especially shocked when I read the part about seeing pregnant women the same as men. Women are similar to men, pregnant women are similar to non-pregnant women. So pregnant women are similar to man. (This should be written by someone who never got pregnant, seriously). I still do not agree with this section! but especially the conclusion part of the paper made it clear that this law especially paralyzed the hiring chances of females, did not really helped them as stated and there are some other ways to solve the problem.
One other focus of Crenshaw was the objectivity of news. I believe her point is very correct that news try to be objective by listening to all parties in the discussion but they listen only the leading figures. Isn’t it interesting that none of the sources cited mentions the ideas of the blue-color female workers but the ideas of feminist rhetoricians and law enforcers.
Feminist Argumentation Theory: Limit Work
I started with the Intro and "Producing Identites". Both of these articles are good in their own right but I found the idea of limit work to be especially thought-provoking (troublesome, complicated, intriguing, etc). At first I was a bit thrown off by Bruner's use of the term. He introduces this theory by calling it a 'feminist argumentation strategy' that can be used to 'distinguish enabling constraints from constraining limitations.' It wasn't until the end of the "constraining features" section that Bruner addressed limit work in much detail (at first I was confused by this, but as I read on I started to see how he revealed the argument slowly to the reader: a very nice strategy). To me, limit work is a means for creating identity by testing the limits of what currently constrains it. There can be enabling constraints, but for the most part, this is a transgressive act which helps the user of this theory understand and work to extend those limits. For example, it's not wrong to address the fact that patriarchal and feminist arguing styles are different (see KKC 1973), but that understanding must only be a starting point to greater inquiry. This greater inquiry, in my opinion, is the standard by which effective argumentation should be measured. Rather than violent, aggressive, agonistic forms of arguing, I prefer a theory like this that emphasizes reflection, identity, and transgression. There were some parts of this theory that I didn't understand fully (essentialism and deconstruction, how one might actually use this in practice, etc), but on the whole it was a good piece of theory-building scholarship.
I'll close with a question. Feel free to comment with answers, ideas, complaints. Seeing how Limit Work operates with a transgressive, liberatory, emancipating ethic, how might Paolo Friere's voice might add to this discussion?
Thursday, March 24, 2011
What shall we read next.....
Any suggestions? Anything jump out at you from the syllabus? Perhaps there's something not on the syllabus that you'd like to bring to the class' attention?
Post a comment below with your input :)
The Contentiousness of Dialogue
A great starting point to conceptualize what dialogue is would be the concept of listening and it being just as important as speaking. Although listening is supposed to be a general component of communication and not necessarily anything special, it seems that daily communication practices may not appreciate listening as much as dialogue does.To focus on listening, and with an empathetic and compassionate ear, may be a place where people can start to really conceptualize dialogue. This may also be an interesting site to explore arguing differently. Although again, listening is something that should be a core component to arguing and even debate, it may not be practiced as much as it should or could be.
Synthesizing Thoughts
The Tannen book articulated most of my reasons for disliking argument and rhetoric as they play out in popular (often political) culture. One of the reasons I took this class is because I find the combativeness of academic and popular discourse tiring. I don’t mean that in an affected way. I mean it enervates me rather than energizes me.
To me, argument, rhetoric, dialectic---these all relate to how we construct and come to know what we call ‘truth.’ Each is a method of discovery and communication. When it comes to truth, I don’t spell it with a capital T. That being said, I do think rigor is important if hope to have usable and reliable results from inquiry. In other words, truth just is what we call the result of our context-driven inquiry. I’m a fallibilist when it comes to knowledge.
Toulmin gave me new tools for thinking about the structure of the types of arguments I often encounter and find myself constructing. But he also helped me to see the similarities between various argument domains.
My interest in argument stems from my desire to become a good teacher of composition and argument, and my desire to understand the way in which beliefs are arrived at and supported. As our course has developed, I have come to see (have I accepted it, yet?) that formal argument is often post hoc. That is, somehow argumentation doesn’t seem constitutive of belief. It supports belief, but it seems that argument is more negative than positive. That is, it can judge the coherence of professed belief, but I’m not sure argument can motivate us to alter our beliefs. Not any one argument, anyway.
This hasn’t turned out to be much of a synthesis.
I guess I’m not sure in what direction I have moved since the course began.
Dialogue & Speaking into the Air
Q1: If the ideal of communication is defined as the meeting of minds, the consensus and even consubstantiation of two interiorities that are separated by the unbridgeable chasm of their embodiment, then communication will always be imperfect. Our modern experience of communication is marked by a sense that we aren’t really connecting with one another, a “problem” we have attempted to solve either through technology or through therapeutic efforts to improve interpersonal dialogue and understanding.
Q2: Communication as dialogue is exemplified by Plato’s Socrates, who in Phaedrus puts forward a vision of communication that “must be soul-to-soul, among embodied live people, in an intimate interaction that is uniquely fit for each participant” (Peters, p. 47). Communication as dissemination is exemplified by Jesus, who in the parable of the sower, “celebrates broadcasting as an equitable mode of communication that leaves the harvest of meaning to the will and capacity of the recipient” (p. 52). Dialogue is rooted in a longing for union with the untouchable other, while dissemination respects the other’s otherness, giving without thought of receiving in return.
I am persuaded by Peters’ argument, and find his biblical interpretation fascinating, particularly his discussion of reciprocity, gift-giving and love. Schooled in a faith tradition (Lutheranism) that emphasizes the radical grace of God, it is probably natural that I would resonate with this image of communication. However, I am a child of the modern age with its emphasis on dialogue, and I still see a place for that intimate communication that seeks a true meeting of the minds/spirits. I agree with Peters, though, that this is far too great a burden, and actually an intrusion on boundaries, to expect from most communicative encounters.
[note: this question asked us to reflect on Peters' discussion of angels, which he puts forward as an example of pure dialogue] Q3: Because (conceding the traditional view of their existence) angels are not encumbered with bodies or embodied language, they are free to communicate directly with one another and with God, through the immediate exchange of understanding, “fusing together in the bliss of pure intelligence” (p. 74). Time and spatial location make no difference to the transparency of their interiorities. It is this ideal of communication that Peters believes has pervaded our own conceptions of how communication should work, with the consequence that we always fall short. But would we (humans) be better off if we could communicate (with one another) this way? It seems to me that much would be lost – mystery, compassion (how could we “feel with” if we already immediately knew the other?), sense of self, respect for others’ otherness, maybe even love (which entails a certain separateness). Yet, since the ideal of communicating like the angels is, in actuality, impossible, perhaps an alternate question is whether there is any place for such a longing. I believe there is, but agree with Peters that it cannot and should not be the ideal for all communication.
I share what I wrote at length because it provides a background to my question for Bohm & Garrett: is their vision of dialogue even attainable? I can see the value in proprioception as a goal, but it almost seems presumptuous to be trying to do that for someone else - it assumes a transparency of interiorities that seems almost like an invasion of boundaries. And when that is taking place in a group with no designated leader or purpose, it seems like a situation ripe for real damage. Much to think about...
Reflexes and argument
Synthesizing Continues
Bohm reading....
I like his chapter about the role of assumptions on communication. I agree that we do observe and judge with our assumptions. But I could not really understand where he wants to go with his chapter on Suspension, the body, and propriocepcion .I think I understood how he used the terms and their meanings but how he wants to combine them with communication is a bit confusing.
Wednesday, March 23, 2011
Synthesizing also...
In addition, I feel like I approach what I hear on TV programs or how I discuss with people differently. Even the most recent one, Bohm’s chapter on assumptions (ch.5) made me reconsider my attitudes in discussions, listening, observing.
Even the class discussions were very useful for me. One day Hayley described an anecdote happened with one of her students and I remember thinking “What I would say if I were that student?”.
As the reading so far, as I stated above the first a few of them were too hard for me to understand but I feel I can get a better grasp of the subjects now. The way people argue has been changing according to needs, culture of the people. The argumentation model that Toulmin has is pretty different than what Aristotle stated. Toulmin and Perelman, though they have some similarities, are different than each other also. The rhetoric model in Asia is different than the ones in West.